VATICAN CITY (LifeSiteNews) — In an exclusive interview with LifeSiteNews about the crisis in the Church, Cardinal Gerhard Müller warned that the Church’s doctrine is being viewed as separate to “pastoral” practices, and called for a “reform” of “deepening the faith.”
“The Church is not in the world to justify sin or a life far away from Jesus Christ,” said Cardinal Müller.
Speaking to this correspondent in Rome during a recent, wide-ranging interview, Müller gave extensive commentary on the rampant confusion in the Catholic Church, the need for a “reform” as called for recently by Cardinal Raymond Burke, the disconnect between Church teaching and “pastoral practice,” the question of female deacons, along with the duties of cardinals and needs of the Church in the next pontificate. {The full interview will be published in two sections: this is part one.}
Müller – former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 2012 through 2017 – has emerged as a leading figurehead in recent years, keen to air the Church’s traditional teaching during a period in which confusion has readily spread about Catholic beliefs.
Following the culmination of the controversial, multi-year Synod on Synodality and in the context of growing speculation of an upcoming conclave with Pope Francis in “critical” condition in hospital, Müller opined on what he saw as the chief issue facing the Catholic Church in the current age:
The question of who is human and what is a human being in a relation to the world, to material world and to the world of intelligence, body and soul, and on the other hand, what is our relation to the absolute horizon of our existence…
We [need to] understand what we are through Jesus Christ, sons and daughters of God, and in the Holy Spirit [who is] poured out in our souls and in our hearts that we are friends of God, and this is highest and the deepest understanding of our vocation as human beings, and that we be not reduced to contingent existence in the world [as if] accidentally produced by a blind nature.
The German prelate, 77, added that current practices promoted in the Church under the guise of being “pastoral” are often “split” from the actual teaching of the Church. On the contrary, he warned, “we cannot divide Jesus into a good teacher of the Gospel and Jesus Christ as a shepherd.”
“There is an error within the Church,” he said, “where they are misunderstanding the doctrine of the Church as a theological theory.”
But the Catholic Church “is not in the world to justify sin or a life far away from Jesus Christ,” but rather “to tell to everybody the truth, and for this we have also to suffer like the apostles.”
The aforementioned Synod on Synodality has been a large part of the Church since its official beginning in 2021, and something which Müller has often criticized, including in a number of interviews with LifeSiteNews. In the Synod’s final document, a passage contained the claim that women’s access to the diaconal ministry “remains open,” something which contradicts Catholic teaching.
This statement, said Müller, “is wrong,” as he noted that “we bishops are only teachers in the name of Jesus Christ, but not by our own production of ideas and theories.”
Advocates of female deacons are motivated by a desire “to have power over the others and to have a higher prestige in society,” he added. “It was only a sociological, psychological approach and not [based on an] understanding of what the sacrament of Holy Orders is.”
The first half of the interview with His Eminence is below. The second part will be published in the coming days. The interview was conducted in English, not Müller’s first language, and has been lightly edited for clarity.
LifeSite interview with Cardinal Müller: Part 1
Michael Haynes: We seem to be at this very pivotal point. We’ve seen the conclusion of the Synod which lasted for a number of years, but now we have the Holy Father in the hospital with a very “critical” condition. We also seem to be in a crisis of confusion where there is either a lack of practice of the Faith or sometimes just a rejection of the Church’s teaching. What do you think is the biggest issue that the Church faces at this time?
Cardinal Gerhard Müller: First today is anthropology: the question of who is human and what is a human being in a relation to the world, to material world and to the world of intelligence, body and soul, and on the other hand, what is our relation to the absolute horizon of our existence? This is for us, Jewish and Christians in this one tradition, it is a personal god who speaks to us first through the mediator of the old covenant Moses, and revealed himself to us “I am who am, and I am present in the history of my people.”
At the end of the times was [present] the Son of God Himself, the mediator of the New and Eternal Covenant, this our Savior, the only hope for everybody in life and death. We [need to] understand what we are through Jesus Christ, sons and daughters of God, and in the Holy Spirit [who is] poured out in our souls and in our hearts that we are friends of God, and this is highest and the deepest understanding of our vocation as human beings, and that we be not reduced to contingent existence in the world [as if] accidentally produced by a blind nature.
READ: EXCLUSIVE: Cardinal Müller calls Pope Francis’ homosexual ‘blessings’ an attack on marriage
So if you are coming out from the will of God and we have this bodily nature linked with material, but the material is not the first principle of the of the being, but is only the medium through which God is in one way the revolution of the world and of the livings living beings, animals at the end.
It is explicit will of God that we are the crown of creation and that we are immediately partners of God in the personal relationship and and is the deepest sense of creation.
Creation is not only like an architect who is producing a building, but creation is a participation of the relations. All that is created is created in the Logos – the word of God – and has the deepest sense, which is revealed in our nature, being and also in grace which is given to us in a supernatural way.
READ: Cardinal Müller: Christianity is a ‘personal relationship’ with Jesus, not an ‘ideology’
The Church is not only a [mere] organization, with a religious, spiritual and moral agenda to make the world better. But the Church is constituted by Jesus Christ Himself as His body, as a temple of the Holy Spirit, not [just] to make the world better, but for ever to make it perfect, to come to the goal of our existence. That is the sacramentality of the Church: is not only a earthly organization administrating the religious feelings of the members, but we are really members of the Body of Jesus Christ and our religion, natural religion and devotion has a supernatural dimension which is sanctifying grace, which is justifying grace, which is given to us and elevates our human nature.
And therefore we need a reform in the Church: not from the structures, but more a reform or a renewal about our theological thinking, understanding of what the Church is.
We are in an anti-Christian world. We must not make false definitions to please the non-Christians [to pretend] that we are [a secular] organization doing good in a social way, and [we must not] justify the Church in the eyes of the non-believers.
The Church is justified in her existence and in their mission by God Himself, and that is why we don’t speak of a reform in the Church in the way we speak about reforming the army to make them more efficient, or to reform the administration of a state.
Reform in the ecclesiastical sense is always the deepening of faith and the deeper understanding of the supernatural mission of the Church for supernatural salvation, not only for the worldly progress.
Haynes: That ties into something which Cardinal Raymond Burke mentioned recently in an interview he gave me. He mentioned that same need for reform: not a reform, as you say, as a secular body, but a reform in Christ. It links to this question: there have been a number of things recent years that have caused a lot of that confusion. You’ve given a number of commentaries on them already – things like Fiducia Supplicans, the issues contained in the Synod. What do you perceive as necessary to repair that confusion, to repair the full teaching of the Faith in that way?
Cdl Müller: The problem is we have a certain split about the teaching of the Church: the doctrine on one hand and the so-called pastoral efforts and challenges [on the other hand]. But we cannot divide Jesus into a good teacher of the Gospel and Jesus Christ as a shepherd – [then] we have a certain Nestorianism, distinguishing too much [between] the divine nature and the human nature of Jesus Christ. [On the contrary] they are united in the person of Jesus Christ who is the same good shepherd who pronounced the Gospel as the kingdom of God, [He is] the high priest.
The best pastor is a pastor who has a basis in dogmatics.
There is an error within the Church where they are misunderstanding the doctrine of the Church as a theological theory. But the doctrine of the Church is nothing more than the Confession of the Faith, and the Faith rooted in the Word of God as a representation of the Word of God, and God is our only Savior.
READ: Cardinal Müller: ‘Pastoral’ attitude severed from Church doctrine is the root of our crisis
The Word of God is changing our life, is evoking the conversion and the change of our life to come to a new lifestyle according to Jesus Christ, the crucified and risen Lord. As St. Paul said, baptism is a death of the old, selfish Adam and the rebirth of the new man in Jesus Christ and all our behavior, all our action must be in accordance with the infused supernatural virtues – faith, hope and love – and the natural virtues, cardinal virtues, and the other virtues we are realizing in our life.
The Church is not in the world to justify sin or a life far away from Jesus Christ. People want what to hear from the Church the justification of their selfish lifestyle, and [for the Church] to speak only what is pleasing the ears. And not for the the effort of strengthening, and [to make] the change of your life into [a good] character.
It is lifelong work make a configuration to Jesus Christ and that is a great danger in our days.
The situation of the worldwide communication, the Internet and social media and television. A pope, the bishops or priests want to be beloved by the mass media, by the people, but there is always the danger – if you are lying, you are more accepted by people than if you are doing [speaking] the truth.
The truth is healing, but [entails] effort to change your life. A man who is suffering from alcoholism: if you bring him more bottles of wine and beer, then you will be more his friend than if you are admonishing him. So also [it is] especially in our sexualized world, if you are saying sexuality is only legitimate inside legitimate marriage, and all other forms of sexual pleasures outside of marriage are sinful, [then] you will have a lot of enemies.
But the reality is that for everybody it [chaste celibacy] is strengthening…
Sexuality for men and women has the deepest reason in love and in giving life to children; they become fathers and mothers, so it is the deepest fulfillment of our human desire.
To live as priests and religious in celibacy – this is not a rejection of being man and woman, but is a possibility to be become fathers and mothers in a spiritual way, to become spiritual fathers as priests of the faithful and to accompany them like a good father in the name of God the Father and Jesus Christ.
This is the way and to be have to tell to everybody the truth, and for this we have also to suffer sometimes like the apostles, St. Paul speaks so often about this situation – not to please people’s ear and only to say what they want to hear, but to say to everybody the truth as only the truth is making us free.
Haynes: We saw with the Synod, there was that line in the final document about the question of women’s access to the diaconal ministry, with the document saying it “remains open.” You’ve noticed yourself, and previous popes have also noted, that that is not the case. So do you think the Church can return from a position where confusion seems to be promoted, not just tolerated?
Cdl Müller: I have been present [in the Synod] and all of these discussions are coming from a certain “wing” with a wrong approach. For them the desire was not to serve the people of God as priests or deacons, but their deepest wish was to have power over the others and to have a higher prestige in society. It was only a sociological, psychological approach and not [based on an] understanding of what the sacrament of Holy Orders is.
This absolutely clear in the biblical basis, and then in the evolution of dogma and in the infallible declarations of the Church and during the entire Apostolic Tradition: that only a man can become a bishop, priest, and a deacon [and thus] represent Jesus, the head of the Church or the Bridegroom.
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The Church as Bride and the Church is not a mere religious organization, but is a person in this sacramental, symbolic form as the Bride of Jesus the Bridegroom, and his prerogative of man is not for elevating personal longing of man for his prestige.
Rather, [the male priesthood] is for making present Jesus Christ the Lord, who suffered for us in the Church who came to serve, not to be served.
There is a deep misunderstanding of the sacramental priesthood that they [advocates of female diaconate] have. They are thinking is nothing more than a high ranking position. They think that now emancipation is coming to the Church! They think that now, we as women have the same possibility to come to high ranking positions in the Church, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding about what the episcopate is.
What is said in this document [Synod’s final document], is that the question of [female] diaconate is open – but it is not open. It is wrong and is not the dogmatic, nor a declaration of the authentic or infallible declaration of the Magisterium, even if the Pope has in a general way accepted the text but not accepted it as a dogma.
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And therefore nobody is obliged to say in the contradiction to the whole Catholic tradition, that the sacramental diaconate is open for women, or that the pope and all the bishops together and the ecumenical council have the power to make this decision: but the decisions of the ecumenical council, the Magisterium, and the pope are dependent on revelation and they cannot change revelation.
They cannot declare that matrimony can consist also of two men or two women in a homosexual relation and that we have to change some morals. With what authority? If a number of bishops or theologists say, “we are changing the morals,” then this is only human authority and nobody but God has the authority…
READ: Cardinal Müller: John Paul II’s ban on female priestly ordination is a ‘dogma,’ includes diaconate
Just as natural law is just inscribed in the logos of the creation that God created in the beginning, man and woman, with the consequences for matrimony and the family.
What God has created and what God has linked cannot be dissolved. It is against the will of God – everybody dissolving matrimony is making a grave sin. This is in words of Jesus Christ, Christ, the Word of God who is the highest and only authority. And we cannot constitute new doctrines against the authority of the word of God in Jesus Christ. He is our only teacher and we bishops are only teachers in the name of Jesus Christ, but not by our own production of ideas and theories.