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(LifeSiteNews) — Last week on The John-Henry Westen Show, I sat down with Michael Matt of The Remnant to discuss his push to “unite the clans” and get his thoughts on the issue of the Francis pontificate.

In this second part of my interview with Matt, we continue our conversation on the Francis pontificate, touching upon whether Francis is the false prophet, the next conclave, and the fallout of the Synod on Synodality.

We start off Part 2 discussing the possibility that Francis is the false prophet. (Click here to watch Part 1 if you haven’t already.) Matt responds in the negative, explaining that the reaction to the false prophet will be like that of the Antichrist – that he will be able to deceive even the elect and prepare the world for the arrival of the Antichrist. According to Matt, Francis cannot be the false prophet, because people opposed his agenda from the beginning of his pontificate.

He also addresses the issue of praying for the Pope’s conversion. He observes that the problem deals with how “cognizant” of error Francis is in his actions, to the point where men such as Cardinal Gerhard Müller say Francis’ actions are no longer Catholic. Even so, Matt tells me that even if Francis is “wayward for a time,” this necessitates neither a loss of papal office or Francis ceasing to be a member of the Church.

“We have to give even the Pope the time for the grace to work on him, and that’s why it’s so important we pray for him, that he might convert and come back,” Matt stresses. “If he converts and comes back like John XXII did, or like Pius IX, they thought he was going to be a liberal… this would be a wonderful, beautiful thing.” 

Beginning his commentary on the conclave, Matt references an interview he just conducted with Cardinal Müller. Looking to what Müller told him, Matt believes “mediocre” bishops will eventually realize that proponents of the Great Reset and Agenda 2030 will eventually persecute them, referencing a statement of the late Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, who once said that his successor would die in jail, die a martyr, and that the martyr’s successor would help rebuild civilization after the collapse.

This attitude, Matt continues, will be present at the next conclave. “Do you really think it’s going to be so unusual that a number of cardinals we would never have expected or suspected of being anything to do with… may say, ‘This has gone too far. Francis is handing the Church over to the United Nations’?” he asks, connecting the point with future lockdowns.  

“And there’s I think where you have [some] human hope or expectation that even humanly speaking, they might want to back away from this,” Matt says about the conclave. “And then you throw in the Holy Ghost and the divine elements and the grace and all of our prayers, and who knows? At least we [have to] hope.” 

Later in the interview, Matt and I discuss where he thinks people began noticing the strangeness of the present pontificate. In context of the current secrecy imposed by Francis on the Synod on Synodality, Matt points to the Pachamama scandal as a point where people began asking questions about the pontificate.

After the Amazon Synod, Matt further contends, everything began “coming out of the closet,” to the point where the Vatican no longer attempts to “convince” Catholics, which is a concept that terrifies him. Now, Matt says, the Vatican rules according to “raw power,” pointing to the unpopularity of Traditionis Custodes and the feud between the Vatican and Bishop Joseph Strickland as examples.

Looking at what Francis may want as a result of his behavior, Matt suggests that Francis may want faithful Catholics to leave the Church and join other groups such as the Eastern Orthodox. Matt, however, responds that the proper response to Francis is to remain faithful and stay in the Church, resisting his agenda.

Matt also warns that Catholics should be ready for grave scandals in the wake of the Synod, and suggests that the point of such scandals may be to undermine the papacy. He points to Francis’ statement early in his pontificate that he wanted to change the Church forever. He also suggests that people pray about how to resist the upcoming crisis and for good leaders to help in the resistance, since a false step will contribute to the undermining of the papacy.

Matt closes the interview by recalling a meditation on Good Friday, something he tells me he reminds his children. 

Matt explains that people thought that Christ was God, that He would fight His enemies. But the closer one gets to Calvary, the more one notices that the apostles have fled, Christ was beaten and crucified, and then died.  

“I think it’s so important as we go through this crucifixion of the Mystical Body of Christ to remember what happened [at the beginning], and we ended up with Our Lady and John and Magdalene, basically at the foot of the Cross,” Matt says.

“Everybody else was gone because they were scandalized,” Matt continues. “So we’re going into a similar state of… scandalization like… we’ve never seen before. Brace for it. There isn’t going to be a comfortable solution.” 

Repeating what he said in Part 1, Matt says declaring Francis an anti-pope is not the solution.

“We’re all going to suffer with [Christ],” Matt concludes. “The longer we stay with the Church, we’re going to suffer with the Church, always confident in the third day that Christ will rise.”

“When the Church rises again, when God intervenes and restores his Church, we got to make sure we’re still there.”

The John-Henry Westen Show is available by video on the show’s YouTube channel and right here on my LifeSite blog.

You can send me feedback, or ideas for show topics by emailing [email protected].

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John-Henry is the co-founder, CEO and editor-in-chief of He and his wife Dianne have eight children and they live in the Ottawa Valley in Ontario, Canada.

He has spoken at conferences and retreats, and appeared on radio and television throughout the world. John-Henry founded the Rome Life Forum, an annual strategy meeting for life, faith and family leaders worldwide. He is a board member of the John Paul II Academy for Human Life and the Family. He is a consultant to Canada’s largest pro-life organization Campaign Life Coalition, and serves on the executive of the Ontario branch of the organization. He has run three times for political office in the province of Ontario representing the Family Coalition Party.

John-Henry earned an MA from the University of Toronto in School and Child Clinical Psychology and an Honours BA from York University in Psychology.