Featured Image

(LifeSiteNews) — Wokeism is something pervasive in current society. We see it raising its flags in churches, grocery stores, and everywhere else we can imagine. On top of that, the situation in the Church is such that most of the hierarchy refuses to condemn it. 

My guest on today’s episode of The John-Henry Westen Show is Catholic podcaster and father Anthony Abbate, host of the Avoiding Babylon podcast, who offers an interesting take on the religion of wokeism, as well as advice for Catholics navigating a society immersed in wokeism and a Church beset by numerous problems. 

Abbate first started his podcast in the midst of the COVID lockdowns. His first video was an attack on the mandates, though after a while he sought to delve into his faith. Explaining the origins of the podcast, he tells me that he was inspired by the events in the Book of Daniel, in which King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon forces unity between the Jews and Gentiles. 

“The channel is basically just a way to avoid this system of force and tyranny that in the Apocalypse [of St. John] it says … it will return in the end, because there will be a system of control that existed just like in the time of Daniel,” he tells me. 

He also offers an interesting take on how wokeism is a religion. According to Abbate, wokeism has all the hallmarks of a typical religion, stressing that if one takes evolution as wokeism’s creation myth, “everything else plays out.” 

“Evolution as a creation myth; climate change as an apocalypse,” Abbate explains. “They have holy days of obligation, which is basically Pride Month. … They have excommunication … so that would be cancel culture. They have original sin, racism or homophobia.” 

He also compares the rainbow flag to a conquering flag, pointing out that every conquest in history saw the planting of the flag to denote conquered territory. According to Abbate, flying the rainbow flag is a sign that a “church no longer has Christ as King. It’s a church to the Dark Lord at that point.” He further voices his concern over the implications this has for the Synod on Synodality, saying “what’s scaring me is seeing all the things playing out in our Church right now, where they’re flirting with the idea of incorporating this flag into the Catholic faith.” 

He also connects the current problems in the Church with biblical typology, comparing the current hierarchy of the Church with the Jews at the time of Christ. 

“I really see the things going on in the hierarchy as a fulfillment of the first coming of Christ,” Abbate says. “So if you look to the first century, you see that the hierarchy colludes with Rome, and they crucify the Christ. … So a proper typological fulfillment would be the modern hierarchy colluding with the new Rome to crucify the Church. And we know that the Church will follow Our Lord in His Passion, Death and Resurrection. I don’t see any other way that it would be fulfilled other than what we’re actually witnessing in the hierarchy right now.” 

Abbate, discussing the issues with the hierarchy, posits that the situation in the Church is “not normal,” using the Archdiocese of Los Angeles’ reaction to the L.A. Dodgers honoring a blasphemous group of gay men in drag mocking nuns and Our Lord as an example. 

Despite the problems, however, Abbate still has hope. “There are some people that go too far,” Abbate opines. “We still know God is present with His Church, we still have Eucharistic miracles, we just saw an incorruptible saint. So it’s not about the Novus Ordo or anything. … We’re just waiting for God to separate the wheat from the chaff. That’s really how I see it.” 

Abbate advises average Catholics navigating the world to trust in God. Abbate tells me that people should recall that Christ promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church, but that He did not promise that it would seem they did. He further advises that people should not obsess over news, constantly seeking updates on the latest news from Rome. 

“I would say for the typical person, know what’s going on, but then also trust in God,” Abbate tells me.  

“He knew what was happening from the foundation of the world. He planned all this. We have nothing to really worry about. But at the same time, I think the secular world doesn’t come after us because we have Francis. … So a lot of people might be going crazy about Francis being in there, but also understand we aren’t getting persecution because of that, because if we do get a holy Pope next, the persecution that will accompany him will be harsher than anything anybody can understand.” 

“Things are going to get bad,” Abbate concludes. “We’re going to see persecution like we haven’t seen since the early Church. So as crazy as things are right now, just accept that this is where God has us. God chose us to be alive at this point in time, and just trust in His Mercy.”

The John-Henry Westen Show is available by video on the show’s YouTube channel and right here on my LifeSite blog.

It is also available in audio format on platforms such as SpotifySoundcloud, and Acast. We are awaiting approval for iTunes and Google Play as well. To subscribe to the audio version on various channels, visit the Acast webpage here.

You can send me feedback, or ideas for show topics by emailing [email protected].

Featured Image

John-Henry is the co-founder, CEO and editor-in-chief of He and his wife Dianne have eight children and they live in the Ottawa Valley in Ontario, Canada.

He has spoken at conferences and retreats, and appeared on radio and television throughout the world. John-Henry founded the Rome Life Forum, an annual strategy meeting for life, faith and family leaders worldwide. He is a board member of the John Paul II Academy for Human Life and the Family. He is a consultant to Canada’s largest pro-life organization Campaign Life Coalition, and serves on the executive of the Ontario branch of the organization. He has run three times for political office in the province of Ontario representing the Family Coalition Party.

John-Henry earned an MA from the University of Toronto in School and Child Clinical Psychology and an Honours BA from York University in Psychology.