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Dr. Francis Collins, NIH directorYoutube/CNBC

CHICAGO (LifeSiteNews) – Former National Institutes of Health (NIH) director Francis Collins laughed about pressuring unvaccinated employees to get COVID shots and defended NIH-funded experiments on aborted babies in leaked audio obtained by The Daily Wire.

Collins, who stepped down from the NIH in December and has since been appointed Joe Biden’s presidential science adviser, made the comments during an October event at the University of Chicago, The Daily Wire reported. Prominent evangelical Russell Moore hosted the event for the Institute of Politics, a group founded by David Axelrod, Barack Obama’s campaign strategist.

Collins, a self-described evangelical Christian, strongly endorsed jab mandates at the private event, telling students with Axelrod’s institute that the federal government has the authority to compel people to get the jab.

“The U.S. government does have the authority to mandate vaccinations if there is an outbreak that is threatening people, because it’s not just about you, it’s about the people you’re going to infect,” Collins said. “There’s no question in my mind that the mandates are legal.”

In a previous interview with Moore just six months prior, Collins had promised evangelicals that there would be no “mandating vaccines from the U.S. government,” The Daily Wire reported.

The Biden administration in September announced federal COVID vaccine mandates targeting tens of millions of Americans, however. The Supreme Court struck down Biden’s jab requirements for private businesses early this year, after multiple lower courts ruled against the policy.

At the University of Chicago event, Collins added that mandates can serve as a useful tactic to coerce people to get inoculated against their wishes, citing his experience as NIH director. “Do [vaccine mandates] convince people who otherwise wouldn’t get them?” he asked rhetorically. “Oh yeah, especially if it means losing your job.”

Collins got a “big response,” he said, when he told 2,000 vaccine-hesitant NIH workers last year that they were “in serious danger of being fired in the next month” if they kept refusing the experimental injections. Under pressure, even some “pretty darn resistant” employees took the jab, he recalled.

“You get the feeling that their resistance was not maybe quite that deeply seated,” Collins said, chuckling.

By fall 2021, the vaccines had been linked to various serious and potentially lethal side effects, including heart inflammation and blood clots. The failure of the shots to halt transmission of COVID-19 had also been known for months.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) admitted in July that jabbed individuals with COVID-19 carry around the same viral load as unvaccinated people and can still spread the virus. By August, the “fully vaccinated” had come to dominate COVID hospitalizations in Israel, a trend observed across the world during the Delta and Omicron waves.

Collins’ taxpayer-funded experiments with unborn babies

The former NIH head also defended gruesome experiments on aborted babies funded by the agency under his leadership, like those conducted by University of Pittsburgh that involved harvesting the organs of live, full-terms babies and grafting their scalps onto rats and mice.

When questioned by one student about such projects, Collins did not deny that he knew of or authorized them, according to The Daily Wire, and did not say that he opposes abortion.

The self-professed Christian said merely that he is “troubled” by abortion and launched into a lengthy defense of the NIH’s research using aborted children.

“After all, pregnancy termination is, at the present time, legal in the United States. Whether you’re in support of it or not, it’s happened,” Collins said. “The material from those elective abortions,” he said, euphemistically referring to babies’ corpses, “is discarded.” And the dead bodies of aborted babies “can be extremely valuable” for certain research, he stressed.

Paying for and experimenting on aborted babies’ tissue may even the “more ethical” choice than not doing so, Collins opined.

“Can you in fact, in some circumstances, even with actions that you consider immoral, derive something from it that might actually be moral and beneficial?” he asked rhetorically. “That’s the horns of the dilemma upon which I have been resting here for these 12 years as NIH director, trying to oversee human fetal tissue research, which is something that I have to make decisions about.”

Collins’ NIH additionally gave nearly $6 million for research on exploring “sex change” surgeries for minors and allowing girls as young as eight years old to receive testosterone.

Moore told the same student, “I don’t have to agree with every Christian on everything in order to see the fruit of the Spirit in that person,” according to The Daily Wire. “Nonetheless, I can respect him as a Christian.” Collins and Moore acknowledged that they could speak freely because, to their knowledge, the event was not being recorded.

And Collins spared no words attacking President Donald Trump and evangelicals who supported him, saying that “every aspect of that President’s character seems to be the opposite of what evangelical Christians would admire.”

Collins at one point suggested that growing outrage directed at himself and White House COVID adviser Dr. Anthony Fauci was created by Trump to distract from “hundreds of thousands” of alleged COVID-19 deaths caused by the president.

“Great harm was done to the people in this nation by a very, very self-involved and misguided president in the previous administration,” Collins said. “Hundreds of thousands of people have died who should not have had to do so.”

“And so there was an effort to try to distract from that dreadful circumstance by finding somebody else to blame,” he claimed.

As The Daily Wire noted, however, by December 2021 more Americans had died with COVID-19 under the Biden administration than under Trump. Collins also declined to mention that emails published earlier this year showed that he and Fauci moved to quash discussion about whether the coronavirus was created in a lab, even after being briefed on evidence supporting the theory.

During Collins’ tenure, the NIH directly funded research that included developing bat coronaviruses at a Chinese laboratory from which SARS-CoV2 is widely suspected to have emerged.

Both Collins and Fauci have consistently disparaged early treatments for COVID-19, like ivermectin, that research has shown can combat the disease without risking serious side effects.

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