See the full transcript of the Joe Rogan/ Dr. Robert Malone podcast here.
(LifeSiteNews) — Controversial and heavily-censored virologist Dr. Robert Malone took massively popular podcaster Joe Rogan on a deep dive into the scientific and cultural factors behind the COVID-19 pandemic during an explosive interview which took the internet by storm over New Year’s weekend.
“We’ve been divided in this way, and it’s all been politicized, and the data have been so thoroughly manipulated, that it’s been hard for any of us to make sense of it,” Malone said during the Friday interview, which went viral before it was squelched by Big Tech corporations for running afoul of the “community guidelines” regarding COVID-19-related commentary.
Well-known as a major contributor to the invention of mRNA technology used in the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 jabs, Dr. Malone is a highly credentialed virologist and vaccinologist with significant connections within the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the U.S. Intelligence Community.
Over the past two years he has endured continuous attacks from members of the media and public health establishment for his carefully considered stance against mass immunization with experimental anti-COVID injections, even facing threats to strip him of his medical license.
During the three-hour-long interview on the world’s top-ranking podcast, Malone laid out a number of crucial points which underscore the medical dangers posed by the universal inoculation of the populace with experimental drugs, along with the social implications of an increasingly totalitarianism with jarring historical precedent.
Media censorship and the ‘horizontal integration’ of industries and governments
Rogan and Malone began their in-depth conversation by digging into the widespread censorship of views that contradict the mainstream COVID-19 narrative.
“What we’re experiencing is a coordinated media warfare the likes of which we have never seen before,” Malone told Rogan, adding that it’s not exclusively “Big Tech” corporations that are responsible for chilling free speech about COVID-19 and the experimental drugs rolled out to treat it.
“It’s the horizontal integration across all major industries now under the control of common funds,” Malone said. “The harmonization of the tech censorship, the interests of ‘Pharma,’ ‘Big Media,’ etc., and governments.”
“If you want to sort of unpack this whole thing, it starts by understanding the Trusted News Initiative,” he said.
The virologist explained that in late 2020 the BBC announced it was launching the so-called Trusted News Initiative (TNI) which would tie “together big tech and big media in service of the government,” ostensibly to curb the spread of alleged “vaccine misinformation.”
This “harmonized” mechanism of the TNI, linking legacy media organizations, tech companies, and government agencies, gave pharmaceutical companies the leverage “to basically take anybody out that is raising any concerns about vaccine safety” by labelling them “anti-vaxxers” if they express any perspective that runs “contrary to the interests of the vaccine industry.”
Malone – whose Twitter account was banned last week and whose LinkedIn account was temporarily suspended last summer – pointed out that the Thomson Reuters Corporation, which “fact-checks” COVID-19 vaccine-related information on social media, shares corporate ownership with Pfizer, one of the largest COVID-19 vaccine producers in the world.
Thomson Reuters CEO James C. Smith, who sits on Pfizer’s Board of Directors, is also a member of the International Business Council of the World Economic Forum (WEF), which has publicly stated its intention to use the COVID-19 pandemic response to bring about a “Great Reset” of global economies.
Hospitals are financially incentivized to suppress early treatments
According to Malone, U.S. hospitals have been given a perverse incentive to over-diagnose COVID, block early treatments, keep coronavirus patients hospitalized, and mark COVID as a cause of death for deceased patients, an incentive structure he suggested keeps the “fear porn” going while ginning up demand for vaccines.
“It’s not rumors,” Malone told Rogan. “The hospitals receive a bonus from the government, I think it’s like $3,000, if someone is hospitalized and able to be declared COVID-positive. They also receive a bonus, I think the total is something like [a] $30,000 incentive, if somebody gets put on the vent[ilator].”
Malone further asserted that hospitals receive a “death benefit” for declaring that a deceased patient who tested positive for the virus died of it, even if that person’s true cause of death was not actually COVID-19.
“The CDC made a determination that they were going to make a core assumption: if [you test] positive, and you die, that is death due to COVID,” he said. “And so the extreme example just to show the absurdity: if a patient comes in with a bullet-hole to the head, and they do a nose swab, and they come up PCR positive, they’re determined to have died from COVID.”
Physicians punished for supplying early treatments
Malone – who serves as the president of the International Alliance of Physicians and Scientists, an international group of over 16,000 physicians and scientists – said hospitalists and hospital administrators have launched full-scale attacks against physicians who supply early treatments to patients, attempting to strip them of their medical licenses for failing to abide by the widespread policy of waiting to treat COVID patients until they need hospitalization.
“[I]f people are giving treatments that are keeping people out of the hospitals, then they’re not getting that revenue,” Malone said.
Moves to block early treatments made international headlines when the widespread, safe and effective drugs ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine were suppressed by governments and public health organizations around the world, a coordinated attack which Malone said may have contributed to hundreds of thousands of fatalities.
“There’s good modeling studies that [show that] probably half a million excess deaths have happened in the United States through the intentional blockade of early treatment by the U.S. government,” Malone said.
Clinical trial corruption
Malone told Rogan that as billion-dollar industries move in tandem to shut down vaccine skeptics, and hospitals act upon financial incentives to block early treatment options, corrupt regulatory policies have enabled pharmaceutical companies to hide vaccine risks from the government agencies that ought to “ferret out” the true safety profile of the drugs the pharmaceutical companies produce.
“We wouldn’t be having all this conflict about ‘what is truth’ if the FDA had done its job,” Malone said. “What the FDA didn’t do was force the pharmaceutical manufacturers to do their job” by rigorously proving the safety and efficacy of the COVID-19 drugs they rushed through production.
According to Malone, the FDA failed to enforce standard policies for testing and verification that should have prevented pharmaceutical companies from hiding negative results of the drug trials they performed.
As an example, Malone described the case of Maddie de Garay, a 13-year-old girl who suffered a seizure and became wheelchair-bound after participating in the Pfizer COVID jab trial for children aged 12-15. Rather than acknowledge the event as a potential reaction to the jab, Malone said Pfizer stated the girl had simply experienced a stomach ache and removed her from the trial.
“There’s all kinds of financial incentives to make bad stuff go away and highlight good stuff,” Malone said. “[It] makes the sponsor happy, and then you get another contract.”
“These are not little contracts,” he continued, adding that “a modest clinical trial is $20 million” while “a big one is $100 million or more.”
“Pfizer is one of the most criminal pharmaceutical organizations in the world based on their past legal history and fines,” Malone said. “What do those fines include? Bribing physicians. It is a cost benefit analysis in the pharmaceutical industry about misbehavior.”
But while hospitals, federal regulatory agencies, and the pharmaceutical companies are cashing in on the rapidly-produced and increasingly-mandated experimental COVID-19 shots, the costs are already being felt on the sharp end of the syringe.
‘What is happening is not right’
Dr. Malone, who was a major contributor to the development of the mRNA technology used in Moderna and Pfizer’s COVID-19 jabs, said he is often asked why he is speaking out against the vaccines he helped to create.
He said his answer is always, “Because what’s happening is not right.”
Malone said he got the Moderna jab soon after the shots were rolled out, anticipating the injections would help with the “long-COVID” he experienced after contracting the virus in early 2020. Instead of relief from his symptoms, he experienced a range of adverse events from the drugs including stage 3 hypertension with soaring systolic blood pressure, irregularities in heartbeat, POTS syndrome, and narcolepsy.
According to Malone, the trove of reputable scientific data now available should raise serious concerns about the safety of the experimental cocktails used to treat COVID.
From spike proteins within the injections appearing to contribute to sometimes fatal microcoagulation (pathological blood clotting); a potential for vaccine-enhanced infection or disease with an increased risk after every dose; and a disturbing possibility of vaccine-related T-cell suppression leading to the reactivation of other viruses like shingles and HPV; Malone said the adverse events related to the COVID-19 shots are widespread and troubling.
The virologist said that according to the literature, the answer to whether or not the spike protein in the jabs cause toxicity in humans “is pretty clear now: It does.”
“I think the question that we’re all arguing about is, ‘how often and how bad?’” he added.
While it’s unclear just how many vaccine-related injuries have occurred thus far, and with long-term data definitionally lacking, Dr. Malone noted that the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the U.S. government’s passive reporting system for recording vaccine-related injuries, has shown an astounding uptick since the rollout of the COVID-19 drugs in late 2020.
With a prior yearly average of 300-400, vaccine-related deaths have skyrocketed to over 20,000 in 2021 alone.
Government lawlessness
Moving on from discussions about the science behind COVID-19 and the experimental vaccines rolled out in response to it, Malone and Rogan shared concerns about the governmental response to the pandemic which has obliterated individual freedoms and shattered the economy.
“Our government is out of control on this, and they are lawless,” Malone said. “These mandates of an experimental vaccine are explicitly illegal. They are explicitly inconsistent with the Nuremberg Code. They’re explicitly inconsistent with the Belmont Report. They are flat-out illegal and they don’t care.”
Malone pointed to recently released emails indicating that National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Disease (NIAID) head Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Francis Collins, who leads the NIH, coordinated to blackball the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, which challenged the prevailing lockdown strategy narrative. According to the emails, which were obtained via a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit, Fauci and Collins worked with the media to discredit the Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford University-trained researchers who authored the Declaration, calling them “fringe epidemiologists.”
“When you see this kind of decoupling of public policy from logic then it causes thinking people like yourself to say, ‘what the hell is going on here?’” Malone said.
The virologist speculated that the new wave of paranoia over the omicron variant of COVID-19 may be a cynical move by public health leaders and politicians to extend the emergency use authorizations which have made lockdowns, mandates, and restrictions possible.
“It’s hard for me to reconcile the behavior of the government and its public health decisions with the data,” Malone said. “Is it incompetence, or is it malevolence?”
“We’re in an environment in which truth and consequences are fungible,” he continued. “This is modern media management and warfare. The truth is what those that are managing the Trusted News Initiative say it is.”
Mass Formation
Malone then spoke about the possible reasons why society has reached such a fevered pitch regarding the COVID-19 pandemic, citing esteemed University of Ghent psychologist and statistician Dr. Mattias Desmet. Desmet posited that societies are presently submerged in a type of widespread hypnosis known as “mass formation.”
Malone said the theory of mass formation derives from “European intellectual inquiry into what the heck happened in Germany in the 20s and 30s” when a “very intelligent, highly educated population” abruptly “went barking mad.”
“And how did that happen? The answer is mass formation psychosis,” Malone said. “When you have a society that has become decoupled from each other and has free-floating anxiety in a sense that things don’t make sense, we can’t understand it, and then their attention gets focused by a leader or series of events on one small point, just like hypnosis, they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere. And one of the aspects of that phenomenon is the people that they identify as their leaders, the ones typically that come in and say, you have this pain, and I can solve it for you… they will follow that person through Hell.”
“It doesn’t matter whether they lie to them or whatever; the data are irrelevant, and furthermore anybody who questions that narrative is to be immediately attacked: they are the ‘other,’” he explained. “This is central to mass formation psychosis, and this is what has happened: we had all those conditions.”
Waking up from the hypnosis
“Mattias’s recommendation is you’ve got to get people to realize that what we’ve got is a situation of global totalitarianism,” Malone said.
“In his experience in Europe, making people realize there’s a bigger threat than the virus can cause a separation psychologically in this fusion, this hypnosis, that has happened. The problem is then you’re just substituting a bigger boogeyman for the current one, and somebody else can come in and manipulate that.”
Instead of substituting one “boogeyman” for another, Malone cited Desmet in advocating for a return to social cohesion and a recognition of the “importance of community.”
“That’s how we get out of this, and I think that this insight of Mattias Desmet is really central to kind of making sense of all of this crazy.”
Malone decried the descent into government-controlled censorship and increased power over everyday life evidenced throughout the pandemic, and warned that Americans are headed for a Chinese-style social credit system if vaccine passports and app-based surveillance become mainstream.
“[D]o you remember back a couple of years ago when you felt sorry for the people in the People’s Republic of China because their internet was filtered, they weren’t allowed free speech, their government told them what to do and think? Okay, now here we are,” Malone said. “Wake up folks.”